[IMG:L]Maybe they’re both just too used to being the most powerful force in the room, but there’s something about A-list film directors and iconic superheroes that just keeps them from sticking together too long. Richard Donner soared away from Superman halfway through the Man of Steel’s second sequel, Tim Burton stuck out only two Batman installments before disappearing into the shadows, Bryan Singer severed his ties to the X-Men after two films with the razor sharp finality of a slash from Wolverine’s claws and Ang Lee only got to Hulk out once.
As a result, despite persistent sequels, no comic book movie property has maintained the consistency of creative vision to create the sense of a true trilogy – until now. Sam Raimi has stayed hands on when it comes to spinning the cinematic saga of a certain web-slinging wonder, and as he prepares to debut Spider-Man 3, he tells Hollywood.com about reuniting with the film’s stars, discovering a new crop of bad guys and just how hard it might be to say goodbye to Spidey.
Hollywood.com: It’s incredibly rare that a director makes it to Part Three in a super hero franchise – how was your experience the third time around?
Sam Raimi: It was great working on the third one in many ways and it was very difficult in many ways. The easiest thing was that the team was the same…so it was definitely easier because of a shorthand of communication. But also we had all learned a lot of lessons so we could make new mistakes. We didn’t have to repeat the same ones. But also working with the actors –that was the biggest advantage of the third picture, because what we’re always after in scenes is to try and find a moment that will reverberate with the audience, you know? Like if someone is heartbroken, we want the audience to have felt that themselves. And to get there we have to make a real moment of truth. Something about it has to be real. Otherwise, however melodramatic the drama may be, there has to be truth in the actor’s performance.
[IMG:R]HW: How was the relationship between you, Tobey Maguire and Kirsten Dunst this time?
SR: I met Tobey and Kirsten seven years ago and we worked on the first pictures as professional people. But then our friendship deepened on the second picture, and I had a much greater degree of trust in them. And I think they trusted me, perhaps, more. And we weren’t afraid of hurting each other’s feelings, or we weren’t afraid of saying “I don’t know what you’re talking about,” you know? Sometimes when you talk about emotions, words sometimes come up short trying to describe a feeling that you have – or a feeling that you’re lacking – from an actor. So the depth of our friendship and just our closeness of our working relationship really enabled us to get at, or attempt to get at, the truthful moments to a greater degree. I’m not saying that we were always successful, because we weren’t. We’d often miss them, but at least we were very close in our relationship so that we could really speak honestly with each other about what we felt was lacking or what we felt we needed.
HW: How did you and brother Ivan and screenwriter Alvin Sargent work out the story for this one?
SR: This time the story was pretty much set up by the first two pictures. And what wasn’t set up by the first two pictures was really influenced greatly from all the great writers and artists of the Marvel comic books of the first 45 years. So it was more about sorting through the material and trying to figure out how best to conclude these storylines and where next our character Peter Parker had to grow to, as a human being…We first decided to approach the problem like this: Where is Peter Parker at the end of the second picture as a human being? He’s a kid in all these stories. They’re kind of coming-of-age stories. He learns different aspects of growing up, different life lessons in each of these films…So my brother and I spoke for quite some time and we felt that the most important thing Peter right now has to learn is this whole concept of him as the avenger or him as the hero. He wears this red-and-blue outfit, he with each criminal he brings to justice, he’s trying to pay down his debt of guilt he feels about the death of Uncle Ben. And he considers himself a hero and a sinless person, versus these villains that he nabs. So we felt it would be a great thing for him to learn, the less black-and-white view of life. And that he’s not above these people, that he’s not just a hero and they’re not just the villains. That we’re all human beings and we all have – that he himself might have – some sin within him and that other human beings, the ones he calls the criminals, have humanity within them.
HW: How did you decide on the villains for this sequel – particularly choosing the Sandman from the classic Spider-Man rogue’s gallery?
SR: We decided [on] the journey Peter Parker has to go on, so then we said “Well, what villain will best represent the conflict that can dramatize his journey? If the hero runs into this conflict, how can he learn forgiveness?” We said “We’ll make the Sandman. We’ll make the villain of the piece someone who is absolutely unforgivable in Peter’s eyes,” to really take him to a place where the audience understands his desire for vengeance and they feel it. And so that the kids will think “Yes, bring the Sandman down, Spider-Man!”…We chose a villain that did not have such a detailed back-story that I would be in defiance of those comic book fans…because the fans do love the character and so do I, and we wanted to just add to the history of one that was slightly less detailed. So I’ve always thought the Sandman was a great visual character and could be a formidable foe against Spider-Man…We also wanted something that you could look back at the first picture and turn the whole thing on its head. So that by the time you got to the end, it was more than the sum of the parts. We thought that would be an interesting experience for the audience. That what they had seen in the first part was true, but there was so much more to the story. When they, like Peter Parker, didn’t have the whole truth, and they thought they did.
HW: The Venom character was not a part of your original comic book reading experience, having been created in the late 80s, but you found a way to effectively integrate him into your story. How long did it take you to get a handle on the character and figure out what to do with him?
SR: When I was working on the Avi set and once we had finished the story. Avi arrived, my producer and partner and the former head of Marvel Comic Books said “Sam, listen, you are so aware of all these ‘70s villains, but you really need to incorporate Venom into this story, because the fans really love Venom. Don’t be so selfish with just the villains that you know and love.” So I said okay. I didn’t understand that much about Venom, because I hadn’t really read him as a kid. So I went to school on Venom. Avi taught me a lot about Venom. And then Alvin Sargent, our screenwriter, really was the voice of Venom in the writing of the screenplay, and he showed me who he was. And then Topher Grace brought another life to the character, until finally I had to go to school with these people being my teachers as to who he was, and I learned who he was. And in trying to satisfy the comic books fans incorporated Venom into the story…That imagery from the church is really borrowed from the Venom’s story. We wanted to be true to the comic books and it’s very similar to how it was depicted in those classic Marvel comic books of the ‘80s, which I more recently have become familiar with…We were trying to pay tribute to those books.
[IMG:L]HW: And Harry Osborn rounds out the trio of antagonists, taking up his father’s mantle as the Green Goblin.
SR: We wanted Harry Osborn, his good friend, [and his] relationship with Peter Parker to be resolved by this third picture. And we had obviously set up the seeds to have some dramatic confrontation and resolution in this third one…[Harry was] acting under the mistaken belief that Peter had killed his father in cold blood, and perhaps wanting to hang onto the notion that his father was an honorable man. And perhaps that he could still be the son that his father wanted him to be if he had just acted a little more strongly and avenged his death, but it wasn’t as simple as that for him.
HW: You’ve had a lot of fun with Peter Parker embracing his darker side. How did you and Tobey work together to create that on screen?
SR: Working on those sequences with Tobey Maguire and the dark Spider-Man, that was a difficult thing for me. Actually it wasn’t fun for me because I didn’t like those sequences. I don’t like when I’m watching Spider-Man go bad. It was unpleasant and I kept worrying, “Gee, do we really have to do this to show how rage-full and vengeful he is? Do we really have to show how pride can destroy you?” But my brother kept telling me “Yes, because he’s going to find himself again. He loses himself.”
HW: Sony plans to eventually make a Spider-Man 4, 5 and 6. Do you have any plans to be involved in future sequels?
SR: Yes, Sony’s making 4, 5, and 6, but I haven’t had time to even think about involvement, nor do I know that…I don’t want to assume that they were definitely going to ask me to do it. I don’t want to be presumptuous about that. But not yet, I haven’t.
HW: Would you like to?
SR: If there was a great story to tell, and I felt the character – I had a really good take on where he could grow to now and I felt that there was, then I think, I think it would be great. But I’d have to have a tremendous passion to do it. Because so many people love Stan Lee’s character that if I didn’t think I could do it fantastically, then I should step aside and let a younger director come in who loves the character and said he could do it with the greatest passion on the earth.
HW: Well, after so many years with Spider-Man in your life, would it be difficult to say goodbye to the franchise?
SR: It would be very hard to say goodbye to Spidey.
HW: If there was a new film series, do you think it would work with a new Spider-Man?
SR: I don’t know. You’d have to make that choice probably based on what the story is and what the characters are, but I couldn’t see – it would be very hard to be involved without Tobey and Kirsten – for me at least.
HW: There’s been talk of you doing The Hobbit next. Would that be set in the same world Peter Jackson created?
SR: I haven’t even thought about that because I don’t really know what I’m doing next. It’s so soon. My ears are still ringing from the mix on this picture.
HW: Since we’re talking about franchise properties, are you comfortable being the guy the studio turns to and trusts to put these blockbusters together?
SR: Well, I know that that will pass. Mostly I see myself as who I was for the 20 years of making films professionally, and that is Mister Low Budget Schlockmeister Horror Film Guy. You know, low-budget crime thriller or low-budget supernatural thriller. Although I have the occasional different picture, I’d always thought it was strange that Amy Pascal hired me to do this film. I mean, I really love the film and I wanted it. But I thought it was a bold and unusual choice, and when it had that tremendous success as a big franchise, I realized this too will pass. This is a very strange experience and I realize how unusual it is. And I know that it won’t be here long.
